Ron Paul on the Way Out?

February 23, 2010 at 09:42 (News, Politics)

I dunno about that, but I do know that the reason why I don’t support him or the Constitution Party or libertarians or whatever is that they have no foreign policy. A lot of the rest I have no problem with. Paul is pretty much good just for economic talk, and not much else. Maybe they could give him a cabinet post one day if someone aside from the Dems or Republicans ever wins.

Though Ron Paul may be the model of the grassroots-backed conservative candidate that Tea Party groups are looking for, the candidates challenging him in the Republican primary this year say the good doctor brought it on himself — by spending too much time running for president and not enough time tending to his district, and being so prickly with congressional colleagues as to render himself obsolete.

“He’s not being involved in his district,” said Gerald Wall, one of three Tea Party-connected candidates running against Paul in the primary.

“He’s unwilling to work with others, and people are unwilling to work with him, and so we have no voice in Congress,” said candidate Tim Graney, calling Paul one of the most “ineffective” members on Capitol Hill.

Paul’s son, Rand, is a Tea Party favorite in his race for Senate in Kentucky — he was recently endorsed by Sarah Palin, who was the keynote speaker at the Tea Party Convention in Nashville earlier this month.

But Rand’s dad appears to have fallen out of favor with some Tea Partiers. They say that while Ron Paul’s fiscal conservative message is sound, he’s a little too fond of pork-barrel projects and nowhere near tough enough on national security.



  1. wedeclare said,

    What are you talking about? We’ve not had a year’s peace since the War to End All Wars, and we’ve accomplished, exactly, what?
    Don’t fool yourself about our military prowess. The Russians don’t get enough credit for their work against the Germany/Japan WWII foes, and we’ve not had either a military success, or even a legally declared war, since WWII.
    We’ve attacked lots of people and nations and pharmaceutical plants, but what have we defended?
    I really do want to hear somebody tell me what’s been worthwhile from all the lost opportunities and wasted lives.
    Personally, I’d rather take my chances against zealots armed with boxcutters and exploding underpants if I could have back the liberty, justice and property rights Americans had a hundred years ago.

    • Man in the World said,

      If we haven’t had any military successes (I might disagree here what with Iraq now reforming, fairly successfully considering the speed, into some form of representative government versus decree by military or dictator’s fiat) it would be because we haven’t actually fought any wars, either declared or otherwise. We have fought political battles, with the troops in the line of fire. That says less about our prowess than it does about our political leadership. Once war or conflict is begun, the politicians need to leave the execution to the commanders in the field. They should read Sun Tzu or Clausewitz, or an other classical strategists and just get out of the way. If they do get out of the way, then in a conventional war we have no equal. Increasingly, that is becoming the case in unconventional warfare as well, although the learning curve is steep due to the bureaucracy and entrenched interests and thinking. That’s all of course assuming a Dem isn’t in charge of funding. When I was in the Army under Clinton, we often had to cancel training and trips to the firing range because we couldn’t afford bullets or the gas to get there. And when deployment orders for Bosnia came (a political favor to the Muslim world to make sure they knew what buds we were) we had to scavenge our fewer newer vehicles to get enough parts for the older ones to run.

      Secondly, you make it sound as though we attack left and right willy-nilly, with no rhyme or reason to our actions. I assume you believe it to be some big corporate conspiracy, or perhaps war for oil or some other such foolishness. That’s probably true. In the cacophony of voices crying for war I would imagine those were pretty loud – certainly louder than all of the UN resolutions Iraq was violating. I would also imagine the inhabitants of the rape rooms in Iraq are mixed in with the voices somewhere. Maybe the entire village of Kurds gassed by Saddam or the uncounted number of bodies executed and dumped by his regime. Maybe we could listen to see if the folks beheaded by the Taliban were screaming in there somewhere as well, or maybe the victims of terrorists blowing up women, children, schools, home, and playgrounds.

      I just do not see how someone can look at evil like that and say ‘What did we defend? What did we accomplish?’, and talk about wasted lives. If we look at that kind of evil and just stand by then we are guilty of that evil. If I were to watch someone be murdered or raped or tortured, then I did it. Me. I will not accept that and it maddens me to think that there are such callous and unfeeling selfish people in the world that they would do so.

      And your loss of liberty has less to do with Iraq than is commonly held in pop culture and everything to do with the far left, starting with Wilson, who made sure that government expanded far beyond it’s original calling. If you think the terrorist threat is the main reason you have less freedom that you did, then you are sadly mistaken.

      As a final note – ‘pharmaceutical plants’? Please.

    • Man in the World said,

  2. wedeclare said,

    Yes, pharmaceutical plants. I’m not saying that the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory didn’t produce nerve gas or anything else dangerous, but I don’t think anybody knows that it did. Many suspect that Clinton just messed up.
    My bigger point is that evil is everywhere around us, and we must not only pick our fights wisely, but also, to paraphrase the aforementioned Sun Tze, know what we defend.
    From what little I’ve seen you seem like an intelligent, mature and experienced bloke.
    What do you think about the >1000% increase in human traffick here in the USA? …Or the fact that now fully ten percent of our population is essentially an illegal invasion force that’s rapidly changing our way of life? We have the world’s highest percentage of citizens in prison along with per capita crime rates ~600 times higher than 100 years ago.
    Yes, there’s evil overseas. But I asked you what we’re defending, and I don’t see that you’ve answered that.
    Maybe it’s class basketball, or central banks. I know we subsidize and defend our rights to drive cars. But I can’t believe you think we’re defending life, liberty and property here in the USA. Those things are threatened like never before in our history.

  3. wedeclare said,

    Oh, and sorry…I don’t mean to be a pest and I’ll not keep plaguing you. But I know very well that our army is capable and fit to blow things up. That’s great if harnessed properly. I believe we should be able to smack down enemies…that, to me, is the only valid role of government – to smack down those who’d harm us that citizens cannot individually handle.
    But we paid the Northern Alliance to fight the Taliban just as we’d paid the Taliban to fight the Northern Alliance. We put Saddam where he was and we did what we could to keep him there until we didn’t like him anymore. We propped up most of the tin-pot dictators and banana republics of the past century with armed conflicts, subsidies and even embargoes.
    We are very bad chess players. But worse, we’re using our kids as pawns. I’m not cool with that.
    I’m no dove. I believe that we should be armed to the teeth and ready to fight…both as individuals and as state/nation.
    But come on…where’s the logic? Where’s the plan? Where is the morality in what we’ve been doing since The Maine Incident?
    At what point do we clean up our own back yard and then leave others alone to regard us in respect or leave us alone in fear?
    Afghanistan, like Vietnam before it, shows that we can, indeed blow things up. Sometimes that’s helpful. But what next isn’t at all clear when we’ve thrown away so much here at home.
    I ask again…
    What do we defend?

  4. Man in the World said,

    Firstly, I do believe that’s the first time I’ve been called a bloke – I kind of like it šŸ™‚

    Agreed on border security – we need to crack down, but that takes political willpower, which most politicians don’t have anymore. That’s another political thing that can only be remedied by a restoration of our Constitution to it’s rightful authority. Until we do, that will never happen. A massive importation of people dependent on government with a third world mentality and a susceptibility to victim politics is a gravy train for politicians. They don’t want to stop it, they want to harness the power it represents and ride it all the way to the bank.

    Agreed as well on the fact that we in many cases propped up or put in place the very dictators that we are fighting. But I can’t let that cloud my vision of what is happening now. Just because we had something to do with putting them there in a ‘lesser evil’ situation during the Cold War does not mean we shouldn’t intervene to stop something that is happening now.

    And I am not in favor of some Manifest Destiny, or some kind of empire building scheme, and not a fan of lightly going of to war at the drop of a hat. But in cases of such obvious wrong such as Iraq, how can we not intervene and look ourselves in the mirror? As in Iraq we should intervene, then stay long enough to help them stabilize and form some sort of representative government, then we need to get out, which is the plan now I believe. After that it’s on them. They get to do whatever they want at that point.

    As for morality, is morality itself that not what we should be defending? Truth, justice, the American way, all these things are amorphous concepts, hard to pin down in a bullet point list, but everyone knows them when they see them. There is a saying (abused by many to get what they want, but still nonetheless true) that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere – if not exactly that, then that sentiment anyway. And it’s true. I don’t want us running around sending troops to every country that votes or decides contrary to our opinion, but I do think that I cannot morally sit idle when there are monsters in the world that need slaying. Saddam was a monster, as are the Taliban and any and all terrorists out there that think it’s a good idea to blow up a school bus or a shopping mall. Communism was monstrous (ask the millions of Ukrainians who were starved to death, or the victims of Mao) as well. The US has two choices that I can see. We can sit idly by and let these horrors happen, or we can be a force for the good. I like the second. So I think we defend morality, we defend the ‘good’ and the ‘beautiful’ that philosophers have argues over for millenia, and we defend above all ‘truth’. But I think above all, we should be defending the lady in this article: If that’s not worth defending then I don’t know what is.

    Anyway, nice chattin’ with you!

  5. wedeclare said,

    Well, since we probably agree on most things other than this, I’ll just leave with this parting shot:
    All our past mistakes seemed like good, necessary, just and proper things to do at the time. But where violence involving standing armies on foreign soil is concerned, we humans have no good examples, and plenty of bad ones to look back upon, in my opinion. We created socialism (starting in New Harmony, IN, and popularizing it with the likes of Francis Julius Bellamy and Eugene Debs), spread it to Russia via WWI, spread it through asia via WWII, all while nurturing it here at home.
    Defensive violence is a necessary evil. But I’d ask you to reconsider what we’re defending if it requires foreign hobgoblins.
    I think it’s dangerous self-deception to ignore the evil within our borders both historically and today.
    Our nation is committing suicide.
    I come from a many-generations fighting family. My dad was a WWII pilot/POW, and his kids have voluntarily worn the uniform. One brother is, as I write this, finally returning home/retiring from his seemingly endless gig as an Army Reserve Chaplain. I have great respect for the people in our armed forces, but I have a great deal of contempt for those who wield that force in violation of their oath of office.
    We’ve let our focus wander. We’ve strayed badly. We’ve become corrupt at the peak of our potential for violence. This is an ancient and predictable scenario.
    Our nation is committing suicide.
    I hope we’re friends and allies in trying to stop this.

  6. Man in the World said,

    As long as you continue to use the word bloke, we’re good šŸ™‚

  7. wedeclare said,

    There’s the bloke!

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